Starting a Software Company as a Foreigner

Greetings from Istanbul,

I know this may be one of the few English post on this forum (if not the only one) but still I hope to get some answers. I actually used Google Translator for understanding it:)

As two young software engineers (25 years old) with decent background, we consider to move to Ukraine and start a software development company (mostly mobile and television focused) where we can develop software for Turkish clients or even to Turkish compaines that are operating in Ukraine. Even tho it is not much, I believe we have enough starting capital ($40.000 plus Turkish goverment grantee) to start a basic company with 5~ recruits (like 2 developers, 1 designer, 1 accountant and 1 social media expert/strategist).

I have a few questions regarding this:

— Which city would be recommended for a such company? Kyiv seems great but from what I see from this site, developer salaries are higher than other cities (actually a few hundred less than Istanbul). How much would it really to get a young but talented developers and designers who are younger than 25 years old?
— I was in Kyiv last week (by the way I really liked the city), really few people were able to speak English decently, how is this situation for software developers and designers?
— How much would it cost for a decent office (no need for superb quality indeed) for the city you suggest (For up to 7–8 people).
— How is the internet usage in Ukraine, we also consider to do a few clone projects which are successfuly yet not existing in Ukraine.
— We plan to use open source technologies, especially Python, Django, Jquery, HTML5, Java, Android and Iphone. Would it be tough to find decent employees who are well at any of this technologies?

Any other suggestions and tips are welcomed!

Best Regards!

Теми: компанія, стартап

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anonymous 28.11.2010 20:15

Put your cash in a case and come to Ukraine. Our representative will meet you at the airport. He’ll provide you a comprehensive guide through Ukraininan way of doing business.

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anonymous 27.11.2010 21:24

$40 000 is not enough. Just consider some average software developer. His salary is about $2 000. For this money you could hire two of them only for 10 months. Is it enough for your business? But you still need to rent an office, to hire some additional staff. Looks like this money could be sufficient to keep your business alive only about half a year.

anonymous 26.11.2010 17:29

Uluc, as an alternative solution, you can find a local already established startup company and negotiate partnership details.
Of course, there are certain risks (like in any industry and any country), but this option obviously has some legal and organizational advantages.

I wish you successful and prosperous business!

Kiev is not very cheap city, but it has more stable bureaucratic system then small cities like Nikolaev etc.
So better to chose something like Odessa, Kharkov etc.
About your questions:
rent rates — $15 — $20 for 1 square / month (all costs).
designer — $1k.
software developer — $1.5k — $2k.
Taxation system — there are several schemes. But legal and normal rate — 12%.
p.s.
i am doing business in mobile field (own mobile software company),

so if you are interested — we can discuss some more details via e-mail — [email protected]

Леголас Трандуилович 26.11.2010 15:46

I’ve never started a company but anyway here are my suggestions

Which city would be recommended for a such company?

Kyiv on a first place. Yes it’s expensive, but it is also the biggest one, and most developed. You wouldn’t have a problem finding any kind of IT-professional in it.
Other big IT cities are Lviv, Kharkiv and Odessa. They are a little bit cheaper (salaries are close to Kyiv, office and apartments rent significantly cheaper).

The smaller cities like Nikolaev suggested above or Vinnica, Ivanofronkivs’k, Ternopil’ might also be an option for your startup budget, but there would be harder to find employees, especially if your requirements are high. If you would like to take a look to small cities I suggest you to check a list of local IT companies on this site and chose the cities with big companies offices in it.

— I was in Kyiv last week (by the way I really liked the city), really few people were able to speak English decently, how is this situation for software developers and designers?

Better than Ukrainian average, but still might be an issue sometime

We plan to use open source technologies, especially Python, Django, Jquery, HTML5, Java, Android and Iphone. Would it be tough to find decent employees who are well at any of this technologies?

You can find them in big cities proposing decent salary.

Нестор Иванович 26.11.2010 15:33

Actually i can say that Trimm’s opinion is really close to mine)
What can i say about salary rates in Kyiv:
average Java developer salary around $2.5K p/m,
for experienced people you have to prepare at least $3−3.5K.
Currently we got a huge hiring race between big companies- so I think that my estimation can grow. For example I got at least 3−5 calls from recruitment agents per week WITHOUT trying to search job...

You can try other cities- but it kind of risky — most of the experienced developers already working in Kyiv:)

anonymous 26.11.2010 15:27

Heya Uluc,
You are actually a heroic person, if you managed to find some answers between overwhelming troll-posts using GTranslate. I’m really impressed.
Basically, 40−50k$ could do the trick, but, please, consider, that our taxation and legislation systems are horrible. Moreover, the taxation will become even worse in the few following months. So, I’d recommend you to consult with ukrainian lawyers in the first place.
— Actually, you shouldn’t take the age into account, as some developers are working since 17−18. So, they have 7−8 years of experience, when they are 25, so they can still have pretty high hourly rate. Moreover, the concentration of talented devs in Kyiv is high in comparison to other regions, as everyone tries to move here, as salries are higher here. Personally I’d recommend you my hometown (Donetsk), but doing business there is a horror, that will never end (as it possible, that you will be constantly charged by ukrainian tax office, as you are from abroad and don’t really know how to get rid of them). — English knowledge is a real problem in here. Approximately 30% of developers speak English fluently. Around 50% can read technical texts, although, they definitely have communication problems. It’s even worse in other towns (Once, I had to become a guide for a day for a guy from Britain, who came to Donetsk alone, as he couldn’t get anywhere, as noone understood him). — Decent office would cost around 1−2k$ a month in Donetsk. But mark my word, donetsk is not the best place for for business. Another thing to note is that office is generally not necessary. You could easily rent an empty flat and make the office out of it (most of small companies do it that way). That would be cheaper, but you’d have to buy everything, even chairs, by yourself. — There are no problems with the internet in Ukraine at the moment. It’s fast, robust and reliable. But it costs quite a lot for commercial usage. — It will depend on the technology and the rate you’d propose. For example, there are loads of java programmers, but they cost quite a lot. On the other hand, there are nearly no iPhone devs and most of them are freelancers or contractors, who wouldn’t bother working in the office. On the other hand, those who will consider office work will charge quite a lot, as there is a major lack of iphone devs at the moment. Python, DJango and Jquery programmers are in the mid-price range, but I can’t tell you if it is easy to find decent ones.
I’d dig into our legislation really deep, before opening the company here, as there are loads of pitfalls, traps and so on. It really is a stupid system and is one of the worst in the world.

Regards.

Developer256 26.11.2010 15:01

>> Which city would be recommended for a such company?
Welcome to Nikolaev.: -)
>> — How much would it cost for a decent office
For start you can rent a two bedrooms flat, about $200−300/month
>> Would it be tough to find decent employees who are well at any of this technologies?
Java — expensive and rare, Android and Iphone — the same.

Here you can find a lot of php dev’s and some.NET.

Starting a Software Company as a Foreigner

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